Comments on: Black Hats and White Hats http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php SEO Blog is a blog with a purpose Thu, 11 Mar 2010 23:52:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: duz http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-56 duz Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:38:36 +0000 http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-56 Steve, thank you for your comments. I hate to poop the party but top of the Google SERPs for |poker player directory| is not difficult. An EXACT query gives only 21 pages and only one site for allinanchor EXACT, which is yours. You may think "you can win even if you are competing against the Gods of Gambling" but in this case they are not competing with you :) The current street price for SEOing a legitimate, high quality poker playing site to the top is $1M+ and the number of people who are capable of doing it without problems could fit on a Greyhound bus. Steve, thank you for your comments. I hate to poop the party but top of the Google SERPs for |poker player directory| is not difficult. An EXACT query gives only 21 pages and only one site for allinanchor EXACT, which is yours. You may think “you can win even if you are competing against the Gods of Gambling” but in this case they are not competing with you :)

The current street price for SEOing a legitimate, high quality poker playing site to the top is $1M+ and the number of people who are capable of doing it without problems could fit on a Greyhound bus.

]]> By: ocseoexpert http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-55 ocseoexpert Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:50:05 +0000 http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-55 To Protheus' comment, you should consider validating each keyword optimized page of your website using an SEO Best Practices checklist. I have one in my ebook, The Four Layers of the SEO Model: How to Rank Higher in the Search Engines (http://fourlayers.com/). One of my clients, PokerFacesUSA.com just landed "poker player directory", 1st place in Google, so you can win even if you are competing against the Gods of Gambling. Michael, I appreciate the White Hat vs Black Hat comparison. I think what it comes down to, now that the SE's and the Internet Marketing industry have matured, is basic economics: "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". To win, we've got to follow all the SEO Best Practices and additionally pay the piper for inclusion in several pay-as-you-go directories. DMOZ and Alexa are fundamental, but thanks to "link aging" we should all factor in timing when it comes to SEO and not just blow our entire budget in one month on links that won't matter in a year. Thanks for the great post! Cheers, Steve Wiideman PS-I gave the finger to these same basic economics principles when I launched my free websites program at http://www.free-websites.us. I guess that's why I keep getting all these crazy awards from Career.org and local politicians. All the Best! To Protheus’ comment, you should consider validating each keyword optimized page of your website using an SEO Best Practices checklist. I have one in my ebook, The Four Layers of the SEO Model: How to Rank Higher in the Search Engines (http://fourlayers.com/).

One of my clients, PokerFacesUSA.com just landed “poker player directory”, 1st place in Google, so you can win even if you are competing against the Gods of Gambling.

Michael,

I appreciate the White Hat vs Black Hat comparison. I think what it comes down to, now that the SE’s and the Internet Marketing industry have matured, is basic economics: “There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch”.

To win, we’ve got to follow all the SEO Best Practices and additionally pay the piper for inclusion in several pay-as-you-go directories. DMOZ and Alexa are fundamental, but thanks to “link aging” we should all factor in timing when it comes to SEO and not just blow our entire budget in one month on links that won’t matter in a year.

Thanks for the great post!

Cheers,
Steve Wiideman

PS-I gave the finger to these same basic economics principles when I launched my free websites program at http://www.free-websites.us. I guess that’s why I keep getting all these crazy awards from Career.org and local politicians. All the Best!

]]> By: protheus http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-38 protheus Fri, 31 Mar 2006 08:37:47 +0000 http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-38 I have worked in Online gambling a long time and i have never worked on a harder project, sometimes i wish i was just a contractor instead of a salaried worked so i could just choose the projects i want. I think it will take about 18 months to get this site working for search engines, it's a case study in bad design with all the boxes ticked, dynamic urls with unecessary variables, javascript navigation, javascript linking, no defined structured, linking based on affiliates id's, redirections all over the place, and no content at all. Really i wanted your impression of the problem because i do understand it but it's a daunting task sometimes (even thought the money is good) it's the greatest challenge of my short life. I have worked in Online gambling a long time and i have never worked on a harder project, sometimes i wish i was just a contractor instead of a salaried worked so i could just choose the projects i want. I think it will take about 18 months to get this site working for search engines, it’s a case study in bad design with all the boxes ticked, dynamic urls with unecessary variables, javascript navigation, javascript linking, no defined structured, linking based on affiliates id’s, redirections all over the place, and no content at all.

Really i wanted your impression of the problem because i do understand it but it’s a daunting task sometimes (even thought the money is good) it’s the greatest challenge of my short life.

]]> By: duz http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-37 duz Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:56:11 +0000 http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-37 protheus - >....I know these websites have all the problems in the world when it comes to seo and as such i am trying my best not only to change the way the websites are made but also the culture behind the way they were made. I think that is very sensible because when I took a quick look to see if there was an easy answer to your question I saw some of the problems you mention :( >when I do a search for eurobet I find coral ? What page of eurobot.com are you expecting to see? http://www.eurobet.com/sb.go?page=index&lang=1&sid=1&ms=MS perhaps? protheus -

>….I know these websites have all the problems in the world when it comes to seo and as such i am trying my best not only to change the way the websites are made but also the culture behind the way they were made.

I think that is very sensible because when I took a quick look to see if there was an easy answer to your question I saw some of the problems you mention :(

>when I do a search for eurobet I find coral ?

What page of eurobot.com are you expecting to see? http://www.eurobet.com/sb.go?page=index&lang=1&sid=1&ms=MS perhaps?

]]> By: protheus http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-36 protheus Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:09:42 +0000 http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-36 I would love your opinion on something, I work on these two websites: coral.co.uk and eurobet.com, i know these websites have all the problems in the world when it comes to seo and as such i am trying my best not only to change the way the websites are made but also the culture behind the way they were made. Now my question is this when i do a seach on google (uk of course) for Coral then i find coral.co.uk in the 2-5 spot depending on a bunch of factors, now when i do a search for eurobet i find coral ? I don't understand how these websites got so intertwined that a search for one results in the other. Could you shed some light on this for me? thanks I would love your opinion on something, I work on these two websites: coral.co.uk and eurobet.com, i know these websites have all the problems in the world when it comes to seo and as such i am trying my best not only to change the way the websites are made but also the culture behind the way they were made. Now my question is this when i do a seach on google (uk of course) for Coral then i find coral.co.uk in the 2-5 spot depending on a bunch of factors, now when i do a search for eurobet i find coral ? I don’t understand how these websites got so intertwined that a search for one results in the other. Could you shed some light on this for me?

thanks

]]> By: protheus http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-35 protheus Wed, 29 Mar 2006 08:44:22 +0000 http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-35 Sometimes i think that the Black hats are winning in the PPG sector but i look at some clear and informative sites that are using nothing but content (as far as I can tell) and normal marketing techniques that acheive great results and i wonder. Then I go to Yahoo or MSN and it's a mess of non sensical websites. On another topic ... It kind of brings me to a mistake I made last week i reformated my home PC and put it online to get the windows update and instead that machine was completly infected with every trojan / virus / adware you can imagine. It was eye opening to realize that under this hood of this internet that we all love and use everyday there is this jungle where it's every man for himself. Sometimes i think that the Black hats are winning in the PPG sector but i look at some clear and informative sites that are using nothing but content (as far as I can tell) and normal marketing techniques that acheive great results and i wonder. Then I go to Yahoo or MSN and it’s a mess of non sensical websites.

On another topic …
It kind of brings me to a mistake I made last week i reformated my home PC and put it online to get the windows update and instead that machine was completly infected with every trojan / virus / adware you can imagine. It was eye opening to realize that under this hood of this internet that we all love and use everyday there is this jungle where it’s every man for himself.

]]> By: duz http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-34 duz Mon, 27 Mar 2006 21:01:03 +0000 http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-34 Good points protheus. The PPG sectors have some of the most ingenious black hats I have ever met but I've noticed recently that they are finding it increasingly difficult to come up with new ideas. Black hats in these sectors now have a working life that is a cross between 'Gunfight At The Ok Coral' and 'Groundhog Day' :) Good points protheus. The PPG sectors have some of the most ingenious black hats I have ever met but I’ve noticed recently that they are finding it increasingly difficult to come up with new ideas. Black hats in these sectors now have a working life that is a cross between ‘Gunfight At The Ok Coral’ and ‘Groundhog Day’ :)

]]> By: protheus http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-32 protheus Mon, 27 Mar 2006 16:16:05 +0000 http://www.seo-blog.com/hats.php#comment-32 Just to add a grain of salt to this soup, i think that relevance is something that is the most important factor to this whole hat thing. Getting your content to search engines is the most important thing and exactly what they want, i think that the worst black hat tactic is using a PG related keywords to deliver traffic to XXX related websites. This is clear deception and lead to polution of the index. I know that google is geting better at eliminating this sort of behavior but it does still happen. Another factor that is important to consider is the industry your website targets, if you are going to be with the Travel or Insurance boys you can't use local e-commerce tactics. The same goes for the sites categorize as PPG or (Pill Porn and Gambling) these industries require some skills that most will consider black hat and withouth these there is no chance of success. Just to add a grain of salt to this soup, i think that relevance is something that is the most important factor to this whole hat thing. Getting your content to search engines is the most important thing and exactly what they want, i think that the worst black hat tactic is using a PG related keywords to deliver traffic to XXX related websites. This is clear deception and lead to polution of the index. I know that google is geting better at eliminating this sort of behavior but it does still happen.

Another factor that is important to consider is the industry your website targets, if you are going to be with the Travel or Insurance boys you can’t use local e-commerce tactics. The same goes for the sites categorize as PPG or (Pill Porn and Gambling) these industries require some skills that most will consider black hat and withouth these there is no chance of success.

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